William Bay [right] interviews Howard Alden at the Smithsonian Jazz Café.

Nor have I forgotten Howard's fluid 7-string guitar playing style. My boss William Bay emphasizes that aspect of Howard's playing in the following interview transcribed from Howard's upcoming Mel Bay Records performance DVD: Howard Alden, Live at the Smithsonian Jazz Café.

Stephen Rekas
Guitar Sessions Editor

William Bay: Howard, you're one of the premiere guitar players in the world of jazz today. I've got to ask you how you got started in music, how you took up the guitar, and what drew you to jazz.

Howard Alden: Wow! Well, that's a mouthful! I was always interested in music. Even when I was five years old I was picking out chords and notes on the piano that I would come across. I messed around with the harmonica for a while, sang in school choirs. But when I was about nine or ten, I started getting interested in guitars; there was a 4-string guitar in our closet that belonged to some distant relative and I started seeing guitar players on TV and got interested in playing it. After messing around on my own trying to figure out how to tune it, I went to a local music store and got Mel Bay's Fun with the Tenor Guitar book.

I always love to hear that!

I showed enough interest and promise that my parents took me back to the music store and signed me up for lessons with a teacher there. The Mel Bay tenor guitar book had it tuned like the top four strings of the guitar. The guy [at the music shop] told me to tune it in fifths - ADGC- like the tenor banjo. After a couple of weeks of learning tunes and starting to get some technique I said, "You know, there's a banjo back in my closet too." He said, "Well, you should bring that in next time, kid." It turns out he was a retired banjo player, actually from St. Louis; his name was Charles Shortino. Does that name mean anything to you?

No, that doesn't, but it's funny because my dad started out on banjo too.

I knew he did.

Weird!

Anyhow, I got sidetracked into playing the banjo for several years. I learned all the old standards and how to play chords and melodies and stuff. A couple of years later, through a local banjo society I met a guy who was playing banjo but was also a part-time jazz guitarist. He started playing me some records of jazz guitar players like Barney Kessel, Charlie Christian, Tal Farlow, George Van Eps, and Django Reinhardt- all of them- and that peaked my interest in the guitar. I got a 6-string guitar and started learning how to play that- at first on my own, just transferring my knowledge from the banjo.

So as you were learning to play the guitar, which guitar players did you really listen to? What influenced your style?

Well really, it was Barney Kessel and Charlie Christian...

Those same guys...

Yes, I was completely out of touch with my generation. All the kids were listening to the Beatles and rock and roll or playing folk music, but I was just infatuated by what I heard on those records.

Did you get many opportunities to play? Was the playing scene good as you were growing up?

It was good for me because playing the banjo there was a whole network of pizza parlors...

I remember that!

All of them had a banjo player and a piano player and sometimes larger groups, but I could take my banjo around, got to know everybody; they'd let me sit in. A lot of times there would be really good piano players too - stride players or ragtime piano players. I remember I was playing in one pizza parlor in Garden Grove, California. I was hired to play the gig on banjo but I would take my guitar in too because I was trying to learn how to play it. [The piano players] would turn me on to people like Teddy Wilson and Art Tatum- things like that.

When you think of the students learning to play the guitar today, what challenges do you see in front of them? The playing scene certainly doesn't seem as good.

That's one of the biggest challenges- the opportunity to go out and play in an informal situation with other players. The apprentice type of situation doesn't exist as much any more.

That's true. The only thing that tends to counterbalance that a little is the fact that the guitar is being taught in so many colleges now.

There is that.

That's the one thing that is really helping the scene. I don't see the opportunities to play for young players, even in the rock scene.

They can't go out and just get to know players and sit in with them at local gigs and stuff. They have to get something so together in jazz and rock; the have to get their act together and go out and do a showcase to get a gig.

One of the characteristics of your style is your mastery of the fingerboard and especially the wonderful way you weave chords together. How did you develop that familiarity with the fingerboard? People have said the guitar is such an easy instrument to play poorly and such a hard instrument to play well. How did you master it?

Well, I was lucky enough to have some really good teachers. After I was self-taught for a couple of years and listening to records, I wound up studying with a player named Jimmy Wyble in Los Angeles.

I know Jimmy.

Well, of course you know Jimmy! I didn't know who he was [at the time]. A friend of mine had actually called up Barney Kessel's number to try to get me lessons with him- he had an ad in the union paper saying "Study the Guitar with Barney Kessel". Barney was getting too busy; he was on the road and he recommended that I get in touch with Jimmy Wyble, who turned out to be a great teacher. He got me started with some great habits right away, as far as finger independence and hearing lines- just general things, very musical tips that really paid off over the years.

What would you say to today's aspiring jazz guitar player in terms of who you would recommend they should listen to and what they should do to develop mastery of the fingerboard, technique, and chord knowledge?

That's a big subject.

It's a whole workshop in one question.

It is. As far as who they should listen to, everybody has different tastes. Again, I come from the classic jazz guitar background. I had a lot of influences- I like people like Barney and Charlie Christian; I like Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington whom you heard me play tonight; I play a lot of his tunes, but I listen to a lot of different things like vocalists Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holliday.

Whatever guitarists you like to listen to, I think it's important to develop a repertoire right away that you can play with other people. So, learning tunes and playing with other people is the most important thing. If there is not a situation or places to go, bars and clubs- to sit in with other people, you have to create those situations yourself. Get together with other players and communicate with other players- that's the most important thing.

What do you tell the student who wants to learn to improvise more freely?

Try to play what they sing, what they hear in their heads. Get away from being locked into the fingerboard and focusing on patterns or their hands.

So try to hear melodies like a singer.

Yes, and then try to find them on the fingerboard. It's a whole lot easier that way.

When did you start playing the 7- string?

I started the playing the 7-string in 1992. I'd known about the 7-string, of course; I heard one of George's records- Mellow Guitar- when I was 13 years old. It was great; I had a third-generation cassette tape of it that I carried around for years. I'd find bits and pieces of his playing on other records and try to emulate him as best I could. At one point when I was still in LA, when I was about 18 or 19, a friend of mine had gotten a 7-string and I picked it up. It felt very cumbersome and unwieldy and it sort of scared me away for a while.

But then after being around for a while and looking for ways to play things I was hearing- piano pieces I was trying to play, or just chordal things- and, of course, George's example and running into Bucky Pizzarelli around New York and picking up his guitar now and then- it finally pushed me over the edge. What really did it was the chance to sit down with George Van Eps person-to-person, and just watch him play. Seeing his hands on the guitar just all of a sudden made it all come together for me.

You obviously tune the seventh string to low A like most jazz players.

Most jazz players tune it to A, yeah.

You're one of the busiest guitar players in the business. You're working all the time, and playing all over with different people. What was the big break for you?

A big break for me was when I moved to New York and started playing with the jazz players around New York. One major turning point for me was my first trip to the East Coast to spend four months playing with Red Norvo in Atlantic City in a trio.

You had to have the chops to do that.

It forced me to get it together really quick. Not only chops though; his aesthetic guidance was stuff that couldn't be taught anywhere else. I'd grown up in LA and studied with people like Howard Roberts and Jimmy Wyble like I mentioned, I had experience around and felt like I was playing great and got the call from Red to play with him. The first couple of days, what I thought was so great- I realized he had a whole different level as far as an aesthetic quality. At first he was a little grumpy with me but then he realized that I was there to learn and he gave me a lot of suggestions. It was invaluable advice.

Another great aspect of your playing is the great rhythm feeling you have especially when playing in a rhythm section. What would you tell a student guitar player about playing in a rhythm section, especially if you play 7-string- staying out of the way of the bass player- or working with a piano player so that the two of you work together and aren't clashing. What advice would you give the student?

Well, keep your ears open for one thing, and try to use your brain. If you're playing with a bass player and drummer and trying to do the Freddy Green style of playing, think more rhythmically, less harmonically. That's one of the things that Red taught me right away when I started playing with him. He wanted me to play rhythm guitar during a bass solo. I started to go [sings and mimes changes on every beat of an up-tempo tune]. I thought I was moving my cards around so cleverly, with all this motion. He just looked at me [as if to say], "Oh, come on!" He told me in essence, "You're there for rhythm, not to draw attention to yourself!" So he really forced me to use economy of movement. So that's one thing.

Other than that, playing with piano players- everyone has a different personality and you just have to find different ways of fitting in and having a conversation rather than drowning each other out. Some piano players prefer you to play light rhythm; some prefer light comping; sometimes you just find a nice melodic line that moves through the changes.

What is coming next in your career? Is there some direction you would like to go or some direction you see happening in your career?

Really, just more of the same of what I'm doing. I'm happy playing with a lot of different situations. This fall, of course, you saw me playing with Mark O'Connor's group on the acoustic guitar.

Awesome sound, awesome group!

It's a different sound but it lets me explore the sound of the acoustic guitar which I haven't done for a lot of years. We're doing some more things together this year. I love the 7-string. It's an adventure every time you pick it up. There's always something new to be learned, or figure out a different way to play it, or a different voicing...

I've gotta ask you these questions: If you could play with anybody, any musician who is no longer here- the Benny Goodman's of the world or whomever - who would you have wanted to play with? I would guess Duke Ellington would be one by the tunes you play.

Duke Ellington would be one. Louis Armstrong would be one of the others.

And why Louis?

He defined such a clear-cut melodic sense, and his aesthetic sense was so well-honed. He made you hear every note he played, yet he played incredibly sophisticated things that were readily accessible to almost anybody who heard it. His rhythmic drive was so natural and so wonderful.

One of the questions I always like to ask musicians is- and I have a hunch as to what your answer is- if you could pick one gig or one playing environment you had experienced in the past, what was your favorite? I know that's hard for you because you've played with so many greats.

You know- that is hard. One of my favorite gigs in the past was playing with Ruby Braff the great trumpet player; I loved playing with his trios with just bass, cornet and guitar- because it gave me a chance to function as both harmonic accompaniment and melodic counterpoint. He was a very close connection with Louis Armstrong too.

We always have a section in Guitar Sessions called "Tales from the Road". Most musicians always have at least one horror story of an incredible gig that no one would believe they had to play, or related to playing that gig or an experience in traveling to or from that gig. What is your horror story in the music business?

Boy, that's a hard one. I tend to forget them after they're over, and focus on the good things that went on afterwards. Even some of the horror stories seem funny after the fact. I remember one of my first gigs was playing with a great clarinet player I've recorded with a lot named Ken Peplowski. One of the first times we played was at the grand opening of a 7-11 out in New Jersey on a winter day. I was playing banjo and he was playing clarinet. We were playing in front of the slurpy machines and most of the customers were getting mad because they couldn't get to the slurpy machine fast enough, you know. So that kind of thing is more funny, really, than a horror story. I can't think of anything really horrible right now.

That would be bad enough!

Do you have any interests outside of music? Music is such a full plate for you. Do you do anything else that is really meaningful, other than your career in music? Do you have any other hobbies?

To tell you the truth, no. Most everything I do is music related other than occasional exercise; riding a bike around, stuff like that.

Do you like to write? Is composing for the guitar something that you are into also?

I haven't done that much composing as such; I've done a fair amount of arranging for small groups, everything from a quintet - I've even scratched out a couple of big band arrangements although it's a little more like drudgery for me because I'm not fast enough at it. Over the years, [I've written] a handful of originals but not a lot of composition as such, other than writing out arrangements for students now and then.

What other guitar players do you recommend that young players catch today, people on the scene?

Peter Bernstein is one of them, one of my favorites.

Great player!

He's got personality, a great sound, beautiful technique, and great ideas. I really like Peter. In the more classical or Brazilian field, Romero Lubambo; He's a classical guitar player in Brazilian style in New York. I always like to hear him play. Of course, I always recommend that people go check out Gene Bertoncini in New York whenever possible. He plays a solo guitar gig a couple nights a week; it's the best deal in town, always an education to hear him play.

Gene's a wonderful guy. I heard you play in concert with Bucky, Gene and Frank Vignola in Hartford, Connecticut; that was quite a guitar summit.

Well Howard, it's a pleasure having you on the label!