A student of the guitar since the age of 5 and a tenor banjo player since age 12, Frank Vignola naturally gravitated towards jazz in his pre-teens. He has performed or recorded with a virtual Who's Who of music icons in various styles including Chet Atkins, Madonna, Jon Faddis, Woody Allen, Ringo Starr, Manhattan Transfer, Frank Wess, Elvin Jones, Lionel Hampton and countless legends from the golden age of jazz. More recently he's been heard with Mark O'Connor and Bucky Pizzarelli; then there's his ongoing gig with Les Paul at the Iridium Ballroom in New York City. As both a leader and sideman, he has appeared on dozens of recordings, most recently an album called Vignola Plays Gershwin featuring fourteen Gershwin classics on the Mel Bay Records label.

Frank spoke with Gerald Miller of Mel Bay Records on March 20, 2007.

Frank, thanks for taking a few minutes to be interviewed for Guitar Sessions. Let's start with Vignola Plays Gershwin, your new CD on Mel Bay Records. Tell me how this project began.
About two years ago, I was talking with Bill [Bay] about a record, and he said, "What about focusing on a certain composer, kind of like the old Ella Fitzgerald recordings where she would take a composer and do their material?" I suggested Gershwin or Charlie Parker and Bill thought the Gershwin idea was wonderful. I've been a fan of his music for a long time and I thought it would make a great record. We finally set a date last June, and here we are with a great release. I'm pretty excited about it.

It's a great record. I attended the recording session and was impressed, first of all, with your work ethic, you and everyone in the band. I've heard some of the best recordings are done quickly like this. As the bass player Tom Kennedy said in the liner notes, the music just seemed to be flowing out of you.
It was a lot of fun; we were having a lot of laughs and then when the record button was hit, everybody got serious. Luckily, all of us have played these songs thousands of times, so we really internalized it. I tried to pick some different keys on the record rather than the standard ones just to make it sound a little bit different. I found that's a great way [to keep everyone's interest] especially on the guitar- like the key of E or the key of A- they're just great keys on the guitar and the bass; so that was one of the things we tried to do a little bit differently was change up the keys, maybe have an arrangement where there are two keys; play the melody in a certain key and go to another key for the solo. It was just a lot of fun, just a great memory, great music and good people. That's the ticket to a good recording.

As far as doing a recording in one day, you always think of two specific recordings: the first Black Sabbath record, which was done in ten hours, and then the famous George Benson recording Breezin' was done in one or two takes for each tune. They had the orchestra, they had the little quartet in the middle of the floor, and for instance, Breezin', I think, was one take. This Masquerade, I believe, was one or two takes. So it's just if you know the music and you're prepared, and if you're comfortable with all the musicians and everyone has the right headspace, there's no reason why a recording like this shouldn't be done in one or two takes per tune.

There's a lot to choose from in the Gershwin catalog.
We could do three boxed sets of the Gershwin catalog (laughter)!

Absolutely. How much of a challenge was it to narrow it down to 14 songs?
Well, it was pretty easy because of the production by Bill Bay. That's the producer's job, to focus a record. Because musicians tend to, myself obviously included- we tend to want to do things that haven't been done, maybe a rare Gershwin piece- or I was a big fan of the Gershwin piano solos, so I wanted to choose one of them. And Bill focused it right up. He said "No, let's concentrate on the real famous Gershwin songs, because he felt my style was unique enough that I'd be able to pull it off.

At first I thought, "Summertime? Wow, another version of Summertime." But, you know what? That's my favorite cut on the record. So it was pretty easy, given the fact that there was a good producer on the job. Because they are running the show, and they do have a specific idea for the concept of the record, which I think is very, very important as a musician- not having to self produce.

It can make all the difference, and Bill's definitely a pro.
Plus he knows so much music - it's pretty neat! We were talking about a Rodgers and Hart follow up, perhaps, picking another great composer, because I've always loved that Ella Fitzgerald series of the songbooks. Irving Berlin is another composer we could do volumes and volumes on, just like George Gershwin.

Tell us about the sidemen on Vignola Plays Gershwin. Of course, you've been working with drummer Joe Ascione for quite a while.
I've known Joe for almost 20 years now and we've done a lot of projects together. He's obviously a great drummer. The thing I love about Joe's playing is that he knows what to do when and where. He knows the songs, he knows the melodies. He picks things up extremely quickly; like if we have an idea for a new arrangement on the spot, which happens a lot, he's right there, all the time. I love the fact that he doesn't mind sitting back and playing brushes on a djembe drum with the acoustic guitar, which sound great together because it blends so well. He doesn't get upset because he's not doing Buddy Rich with the sticks, you know what I'm saying (laughter)? So I think he's just a real pro.

I met [upright bassist] Tom Kennedy for the first time the first day of the Gershwin session. I've been a big fan of his, especially his work with the Dave Weckl Band. As soon as we shook hands, the jokes started flying, so it was just wonderful. It made me feel very comfortable. I think he's one of the best bass players in the world today.

And in fact the CD opens with a bass solo.
Right, and how often does that happen?

And then Corey [Christiansen] - this is the first time we've really played together; I think his solo on the first track, "I Got Rhythm", is the highlight of the record. It's pretty cool that he was able to accompany so well in the different styles, and play rhythm guitar, meaning four beats per measure, in the style of the great rhythm guitarist Lou Paulo, who was with Les Paul for years and years.

So yeah, it was a real great record. I remember, I think you guys had two or three days booked [at Music Masters Studio] and we were able to mix it up, pick takes, edit and do all that stuff by the time we left. That was really pretty cool!

You all worked together like a well-oiled machine.
You know, when you get pros together with the right attitude, that's what can happen. I really think attitude is the key word in all of this, because without it, you can get - and I've been involved in this situation many times- where you get one guy who's not a team player, too worried about himself and what he sounds like, and before you know it, time is being wasted. In the studio, it drives me bananas.

Because the clock's running.
The clock's running, and you want to do a good job, you want to get it done. I like to get a head start on things. I don't like to go down to the wire - now you're rushing. You know, whether it's leaving five hours before a two-hour drive to make a gig just in case of traffic or getting a record done in a timely fashion, making sure everything's working. Because in the studio, you never know. What if the Pro Tools breaks down, what if there's an electrical failure, you never know (laughter)! I've been involved in so many things where you think you're ahead of the game, and all of a sudden something happens, and before you know it, you have three hours left and you're rushing.

It's like our parents always told us - leave an hour early, especially for job interviews.
That's right - leave an hour early!

At Mel Bay, of course, we reach a huge number of guitar fans. They'll want to know about the guitar you used on the recording.
I used a Blueridge on this particular recording, made by the Saga company. It's a flattop, and I just loved the sound of this guitar with this music, for some reason. The flattop and its sustain worked really well with this style and it added a little more uniqueness to the sound of the record. I usually play a Benedetto, but for some reason with the tunes that we picked and the headspace I was in at the time, the flattop worked really well. Unfortunately, the weather got to the Blue Ridge this winter and I opened up the case one day and there was a big crack through the whole top. So that guitar is basically done. Its final moment was the Gershwin record (laughter).

Well, it went out on a beautiful note.
And, you know, it's not a very expensive guitar, so it's not worth having it fixed. I'll let my kids play Peter Townsend with that guitar one of these days.

Have you had many experiences with less expensive instruments?
No, but my father has had a lot of success, because he's really into going into pawnshops. And he's gotten D'Angelicos and old banjos for next to nothing.

Do you enjoy playing unusual instruments that give you particular sounds?
No, I'm just not really into that kind of looking around, like collecting. It's just not my bag. David Grisman, on the other hand, is an eBay addict when it comes to instruments, and he's found more strange instruments that he picks up that are really kind of cool. But again, I'm more like- "Let's get on the road and play."

The right tools for the job.
Exactly!

At Mel Bay, the record label is closely tied to the educational side of the company. You've written quite a bit for Mel Bay.
I believe [I have] 18 books with them.

And you're a dedicated teacher. What would you like your students to learn from a recording like Vignola Plays Gershwin?
First of all, know the song you're playing. Internalize it, be able to sing it. Really know the song you're playing. A studio is not a place to rehearse.

Second, in a recording situation I always remind my students not to forget why we're playing music - because we have fun doing it! You know, a lot of times a recording session can be a stressful thing. It doesn't have to be, especially if you keep it light, you know what you're doing, everyone is aware of what's going on musically, everyone knows their part, then you have to start to have fun. Once it gets past one or two takes, it's best, in my opinion, to go on to something else. If you feel you need to do another take later, then do another one later because the freshness of the music, the interaction, the interplay starts to get lost after one or two takes- at least in my case.

Another good thing to do is make sure you're in tune. I really mean that, because there have been many recordings that I hear and that I've been on where someone wasn't in tune and it really makes for a take that people are saying "Why doesn't it sound right?" It's because you're not in tune. That's why it's very difficult to get a good live recording. Most of the time, someone is a little out of tune. In the moment, you may not realize it. So after every take, or before every take starts, just make sure you get that little Korg tuner out and have it right on the stand and keep checking the tuning; that, to me, is very important and one of the reasons time gets wasted in the studio.

The fundamentals.
The fundamentals! It all gets down to that. Practice routine. It doesn't really have anything to do with recording, but at the same time it has everything to do with recording because now, after years of playing, rehearsing, you dedicate your whole life to an art form, and now you have a day to make a record, or two days, and in the whole scheme of things, it's not that long. So practice routine. I tell my students that you have to practice every day whether it's 20 or 30 minutes a day, just make sure you have that time every day that you're going to dedicate to practicing.

Especially the guitar.
Of course.

Maybe it's possible to walk away from a keyboard and come back a week later and not have lost so much, but the guitar is such an organic instrument.
Right, and also the mouthpiece instruments. You know, you have to keep your chops up. You can't have the phone on; you have to get away from the computer unless you're studying through the computer. You really have to play every day - 20, 30 minutes of serious practice.

Speaking of students, I hear one of your sons in the background.
That's Leo, one of my many sons.

There's a lot of music in your family tree. How far back have you traced it?
My father plays semi-professionally. My great grandfather was a mandolin player. My other great grandfather was an accordion player. And there's one very funny story. My great grandfather, unfortunately, used to drink a lot. But the one funny story was that one Christmastime, they lived in Brooklyn, in a second story apartment, and he was sitting on the windowsill one Christmas playing his accordion, and he had a little too much to drink and he fell out the window with his accordion, luckily into a bunch of garbage, so he didn't hurt himself.

When I was growing up, there was always music going on in the household. Every Thursday night my father would have his friends over and they would jam all night long. I would go to a lot of gigs with my father - he would play on weekends and nights - and I never forgot that because now after studying the Gypsy music and all of that stuff, that's really where that whole culture comes from- sitting around the campfire playing songs, not worrying about "Can we sell it?" or "Are we gonna get a gig?" - but instead just for the fun of being with each other and playing music.

Playing for the moment.
Playing for the moment. I'll never forget that, and even to this day, talking to Bucky Pizzarelli, one of my guitar heroes…his family was the same way. Every Sunday they used to get together and have pasta and play guitars. And it's amazing how many legendary guitarists used to go over to his house to eat pasta and play in the moment- like Les Paul, George Barnes or anybody else who happened to be in town, Tony Mattola, so I never forgot how important it is, when you're playing music, you should be in the moment having fun doing it, because that's why we get involved with it.

Like I tell my son about sports - when it stops being fun...
Time to get out, time to reevaluate.

You know, the job for me, being on the road- is getting on that plane, renting the car, driving 300 miles. Then you get there, now you're on stage, hopefully there are a lot of people attending the show. Now that's the fun of it, not the job of it. The job is getting there and all else that goes with being a musician - trying to promote yourself, trying to get work, that's the full-time job to me. When you have four kids in the family, it becomes even more of a full-time job (laughs), but the music-playing part of it- that's the fun for me, just like on the Gershwin record.

We drove to St. Louis after a week and a half of heavy touring. When we got there, there's the studio, meet Tom Kennedy; now all of a sudden we're down playing music and it was just a lot of fun. That all comes from seeing what the scene was like at home, and music was the outlet for my father and my family- the fun outlet. It was a hobby, but I never forgot how much fun it was watching them have fun laughing, playing "Limehouse Blues" again.

It's the same feeling you find at bluegrass festivals. I go to a lot of those, and you get the impression the players don't sleep.
They don't sleep! They're having so much fun. Right, [it's the] same headspace, and I think jazz has lost some of that in the last 10 or 15 years. You know, it's very serious music now, almost like classical music, where it's in a concert hall and you gotta sit very. It doesn't look like a lot of people playing [jazz] are having that much fun.

Tell us about your influences.
Well- Django, Joe Pass, Les Paul, and Bucky Pizzarelli - they were my first influences; at the age of six, playing along with their records. So I have to say that, even to this day, it's pretty amazing to think back at how much of an influence they were on me. Getting a chance to play with Les Paul every Monday night for five years, getting a chance to play with and get to know Bucky Pizzarelli, I'm still in awe of these people. We're friends, but it's a little different for me.

Your respect and admiration for Bucky was obvious when you backed him up on his Favorite Solos DVD for Mel Bay Records.
I'm just still in awe of the guy, the fact that I'm sitting there with Bucky Pizzarelli. I know it sounds kind of funny, because we play concerts together and we record together. But I remember one night specifically at the Iridium when Bucky took Lou Paulo's place. And there we are playing, and all of a sudden I look to my right and there are Les Paul and Bucky Pizzarelli sitting there. I almost couldn't play because I was so freaked out remembering how at the age of six and seven, listening to their records, my father showing me the chords to the songs- that's what really made me want to play guitar for a living.

I didn't get into rock and roll until I was 14 or 15 years old. So by that time, I had every Joe Pass, Les Paul and Django record. To be able to experience and meet and play with my heroes is the experience of a lifetime, and a performance experience that a school or a college can never offer. That's one area where I think schools and colleges should put more effort - actually going out and getting gigs. When I taught at a college, my first assignment was "Go get a gig." For guitar especially, it's so easy to go play solo guitar. I mean, it's not an easy thing to do, but it's easy to go out and find work doing that.

They need to get out and find the listeners.
And learn how to communicate with them. It's amazing how quickly my students progressed when they were out there working a couple nights a week, because they went and found gigs, coffeehouses especially. Some of the local churches would have a community thing on a Friday or Saturday night, and they would go play there for an hour. It's amazing when you can't stop playing the song in the middle of it, like you do in practice- how fast you learn those songs.

So I think it's very important as students of the guitar to go out and get work, because that's what you're going to be doing when you graduate from college or if you want to be a musician; you're gonna have to go and get work somewhere. The phone just doesn't happen to ring. Because there are 5000 guitar players out there who want the same job you do. So it's just an interesting concept.

Last question: Are your sons having a similar experience to what you had growing up?
We do a lot of jamming, believe it or not. Last night we had a big jam. One son likes to play the drums. My next son is really taking to music, and the way I judge that is that he loves to practice. I don't have to tell him "You gotta practice." He just does it on his own. My eldest son is not as much into practicing; he just enjoys the experience of playing a beat and everybody doing their thing.

To answer your question, there is a lot of music in the house, but it's mainly made by us. I live so far away from everybody else that there's not that community. But when I have rehearsals here it's amazing how they sit there and listen and just look at like "Wow, look at the size of that bass!" You know, they'd never seen a double bass before (laughs).

So I do try to bring music into the house. Like last week I did a concert with Bucky Pizzarelli and Gene Bertoncini up here in my neck of the woods. They came up for dinner, and immediately the guitars were out, and I could see the boys were just engrossed in the fact that dad's playing guitar with a couple of guys here. It's just fun to see them experience that.

It's something they'll never forget.
I hope not; I really hope not.

Well Frank, thanks for taking a few minutes to talk with me today, and I certainly appreciate, and I know the listeners will appreciate your new CD, Vignola Plays Gershwin.
I hope they do. It was a pleasure to make, and I hope we can do many more together in the future.